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Retirement Savings and Benefits
Questions and comments about IRAs, 401k accounts, social security, and other forms of retirement savings and benefits.
Two 401K and Pension Rollover to IRA
Posted by: edge (IP Logged)
Date: October 2, 2008 10:39AM
I would like some advice on rolling over my two 401 K plans and a single pension from previous employers to one or more IRAs. I would also like to know which type of IRA is best for my situation and if I should Roll the previous 401K into a new employers 401K. I am 50 years old, live in New Jersey, currently unemployed, and looking for work.
The 401K from Company A dates back to 1984 and it includes Pre-1987 and Post 1986 after tax contribution. Contributions are from Pre Tax matched and unmatched, a Roll-in from severance package, a Prior ESOP and Restricted After Tax. The 401 K from Company B dates back to 1998 and the contributions comprised of employer contributions and elective deferral (I assume this means pre-tax matched and unmatched). The Pension is a lump sum from company A.
Thanks
Re: Two 401K and Pension Rollover to IRA
Posted by: Alan S. (IP Logged)
Date: October 2, 2008 02:26PM
First, find out if Company A will permit two direct rollovers, one for the after tax amounts to a Roth IRA and the pre tax to a TIRA, but do not act on this yet. You should have access to the pre 87 after tax contributions on a separate and tax free basis if you have emergency needs.
Otherwise, leave the plans alone until you get a new job and determine the nature of their retirement plan offerings, and if the plan will accept any incoming rollovers. Then you can determine whether you should transfer pre tax amounts to that plan. If things get really bad, you may be forced to transfer the plans to an IRA and set up a 72t plan for distributions without penalty. This is a last resort solution.
If the balances of these plans are large, any rollover should be made to a new IRA account instead of an existing account in order to preserve bankruptcy protection on these accounts without a dollar limit, since they are employer rollovers. If you combine them with current contributary IRAs, you may be limited to 1 million of protection plus inflation adjustments.
An election of whether to convert pre tax funds to a Roth IRA requires much more detailed analysis than can be provided here, and tons of supporting detail. But at this time I would not act on the prior plans until your new job settles out, and then you can take the best course of action.
Getting the after tax amounts into a Roth IRA should then be a top priority unless you will need those funds within 5 years.
Re: Two 401K and Pension Rollover to IRA
Posted by: edge (IP Logged)
Date: October 2, 2008 03:07PM
Balance on the funds is below 1 million limit. I do not expect to need to draw from these 401K funds, even with my unemployment. I am not planning to draw from the after tax funds within 5 years.
Would a TIRA be the best for the pension?
Are the tax benefits reduced if I roll Company B 401K to an IRA temporarily? Can I roll it to a new 401K later? I ask because some time ago I have moved all the funds to cash. But, have found this plan's "money market fund" is instead a collective investment trust with investments in AIG and looks to have higher risk exposure than a name big MM fund. There are no other cash options within the plan and would rather use another investment house. I have other investment options at company A plan, so this not issue with this plan.
Re: Two 401K and Pension Rollover to IRA
Posted by: Alan S. (IP Logged)
Date: October 2, 2008 04:59PM
There is no current tax impact if you do a direct rollover of the B plan to an IRA. However, it is possible that your new employer may not accept incoming IRA rollovers, in fact they may not accept any incoming rollovers. An IRA generally provides more investment options as well.
If it turns out that you want to do Roth conversions later on, it would be best to try to do them directly from Plan A, since that is where the after tax money is. Direct Roth conversions are new this year, and many plans are not familiar with them. The 100,000 income limit for these conversions applies only till 2010.
The Company A pension is probably completely pre tax and there is no downside to transferring a lump sum to a TIRA unless you have serious creditor problems, or unless you have not investigated the other pension plan distribution options, such as various annuity payouts. Also, a pension is insured by the PBGC unless it is a public plan.
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